Billy Wentworth, at 86 and 23 years after retiring from Federal politics, is re-entering the fray by standing in next week’s by-election in the seat named after his grandfather, the publisher and explorer. He entered Federal Parliament in 1949. Menzies never gave him a Ministry because he was always a maverick and seen as on the left of the Liberal Party. It was after Menzies and Holt that got a ministry _ Minister for Social Serives and Minister in Charge of Aboriginal Affairs in 1968. He held them until the Liberals lost office in 1972. The ministries’ names reflect the attitudes of the times _ some of which Wentworth has retained.
While agreeing in a discussion last week with H. C. Nugget Coombs on economic issues, they parted company on Aboriginal policy, in particular the need for a settlement. Wentworth is more assimilationist and Coombs more self-determinist. Coombs: “”The means are pretty clear now. We should either give it back to them or compensate them for having taken it.” Wentworth: “”I think the second is right. I’m very much in favour in giving the Aborigines a fair go, but I don’t think some of the later developments have been good either for Aboriginal or for Australia.” Coombs: “”They want the decisions to be their decisions not ours. That is the truth of the matter. The moment we are honest about ownership of the land we will see their demands are modest. They want a treaty. Some sort of negotiated settlement.” Wentworth: “”I’m worried about this treaty. There are two troubles. The first is you do not know who to negotiate with. Aboriginal people were divided before we came and are still divided.
There isn’t really anybody you can negotiate with in the way you can negotiate with a country that has a settled constitutional arrangement.” Coombs: “”It’s not easy. The solutions would not be 100 per cent perfect, but I don’t think it is true. There were structures proposed at the first meeting at Eva Valley (after Mabo) where reps of Aboriginal organisations from all over Australia they put forward a series of propositions to the government. It’s true that when they went to other Aboriginal groups they were criticised. But I don’t think we have really tried to pursue the issue of negotiation.” Wentworth: “”Mabo was unfortunate in many regards because it meant that certain groups of Aboriginal would be come very privileged or very rich and the majority of Aborigines would get nothing.” Coombs moved his head back and looked at skywards at this. Wentworth went on: “”People with perhaps one eighth Aboriginal blood and completely Europeanised going about claiming privileges. I think that is rather monstrous in a way. Indeed there is an Aboriginal industry that has got going based upon a demand for privilege.”
Wentworth said he wanted a fair settlement. Asked how do you achieve a fair settlement without negotiation he said, “”When there is no-one to negotiate with as such it’s difficult. You can talk to them. Negotiation means there are two parties and you haven’t got that. I’m not saying that there should be no payment and I’d go further than the government proposes. I’m afraid now that you have to measure it in terms of money. Land is important to fewer and fewer Aborigines. Coombs qietly muttered: “”No, no, no.” Asked abot the international condemnation because of the continued measrable disparity in infant mortality, life expectancy and educational level, Wentowrth said: “”It is quite ridiculous. . . . If you think of the mass situation India, Pakistan, Mongolia or Africa, Australia doesn’t come out so badly. The self-flagellation is unjustified.
We should do more, but to admit we are so terrible on the world scene is ridiculous. Coombs: “”What we don’t do is enable Aborigines to deal with these problems themselves. That is the ultimate thing. The question we have argued about “Who is an Aboriginal?”; that’s their problem. They haven’t got an organisation; that’s their problem. Let’s put the power to answer those questions into their hands. I think you are creating hurdles that don’t exist. There are examples of shifting power into Aboriginal hands, and as to whose hands, they decide. All over Australia there are Aboriginal organisations. I’m not saying they are perfect or 100 per cent Aboriginal, but they say this is an Aboriginal organisation. There is a way in which the question whether an organisation is an Aboriginal organisation can be resolved by Aborigines.
I’m not saying it will always be done fairly or logically, but it gets done. “”At Eva Valley, Aboriginal groups sent some representatives to met government and they said there shold be a second meeting and Aboriginal groups from throughout Australia should be allowed to send the representatives they decide to a meeting to discuss what they wanted out of Mabo. But that second meeting never took place. Why not? Because genuinely we did not want it to happen. If that had been followed, there would have been rows and disputes over the answer that emerged, but answers would have emerged if they had been provided with resources to have another conference. “”But that did not happen. We did not even pass the power to have another conference about that issue. “”Every organisation that has been set up has been determined by white people.
They have never been completely independent; been able to select their own advisers. Their own experts. . . . ATSIC was designed in the Prime Minister’s department. True they had consultation. But in the end ATSIC is an organisation that purports to be Aboriginal and has Aboriginal people on it, but they are accountable to the government. Their employees who work for them belong to the Public Service and their careers depend on their standing in the white society and white structure. We have not been honest about this.”” Wentworth: “”The real trouble is that in the Aboriginal organisation or tribal system there is no real way of delegating authority. You are trying to impose on Aboriginals something which in a way is unaboriginal. There is no way out of that dilemma.” Coombs: “”There isn’t a dilemma.” Wentworth: “”Eight or nine years ago I went out to Amata (in north-west South Astralia) . It had complete control of its own area.
It had resources. It was given everything and every autonomy you could give it. And it was a complete bloody shambles. They could not keep the drink out. They employed white people to muster the cattle and to so the butchering. “”Once you break down the tribal authority its very difficult to know how you’re going to run things and you can’t run them other than in a white way. Nugget is saying you have people with delegated authority coming in; but that’s entirely unaboriginal. You’re imposing on them a white super-structure. You’ve got to do it. It’s much more difficult than you make it, but you and I are on the same wavelength. We want to give them autonomy. We want them to take control of their own destiny. But its quite — you, you can’t put children in charge of a factory. . . .
It’s not that they themselves are children. They haven’t got the organisation that has taken us thousands of years to build up. And we are endeavouring to impose on them, but we’ve got to do it. We’ve got to impose on them a kind of social organisation which is entirely inimical to Aboriginal organisations which were there before we came. . . . “”We have got to impose on them because they now live in a different world. . . . This means a change in the social structure and it’s no use saying: let them do it. Let them make their own decisions. They will not be able to make their own decisions without help. . . . They need your guidance, Nugget.” Coombs: “”No, they don’t.”